Shaya Greathouse: We’re with Dr. William Lock, today is April 13th, 2009 at almost 12:00pm, at Crowell Hall at Biola University.
Dave Martina: Shaya Greathouse and Dave Martina are interviewers with Dr. Bill Lock, and…welcome, Dr. Lock. How are you?
William Lock: Thank you. I’m having a great day. It might get worse. (laughs).
DM: Well, we wanted to ask a few questions about some people who were professors here in the…well the 50’s 60’s, 70’s and forward. People who would have overlapped with your time here, and we’ve got a list here, and we were wondering if we could start with Gordon Hooker. Can you tell us about Gordon Hooker? He rang the Chimes above Biola for a long long time and then everyone moved here…so can you tell us about him?
WL: Well, if memory serves me correctly, he started quite a few years before I came…I came to Biola in 1963. And he and his wife Martha both taught. She taught in Christian Education and he taught piano improvisation. He served at the same time as the pianist at Church of the Open Door. And he was also the carilloneer…so he rang the bells at the top of the building to beckon people to come to church, to this gigantic 4000 seat auditorium where I have happened to lead music, lead singing a number of times. And he tells some wonderful stories about people who came to church and found the Lord just by hearing these bells. So when the building downtown was sold, I suggested they bring some of the bells here on campus as a part of our heritage. So we have bells in the center of campus, and we have a few bells at the La Mirada Avenue entrance. Gordon Hooker also did a lot of band arrangements. He came from New Zealand, but this became his home. He lived on campus with his wife, in one of the huts which are gone now, but somewhere near the dinosaur area.
SG: Oh, the mammoth?
WL: At the foot of the hill there. And they stayed on after they both retired. The campus allowed them to stay here, ‘cause this was really their home. And they were very closely connected to the students. They loved their students, they spent a lot of time, and in the summer time, they did beach evangelism. She told flannel graph stories, which was the style then, and he assisted her, so that was her missions project, so to speak.
DM: You said… “final wrath stories…?”
WL: Flannel graph.
DM/SG: Oh. Flannel graph!
WL: Flannel graph. I’m sorry, I’m going to have to work on my diction.
(laughter)
DM: Coming from Dr. Lock…!
SG: I know a great professor who can teach you! (laughter)
DM: Ok, how long was Dr. Hooker here?
WL: A very long time.
DM: How many years?
WL: If…It was…
DM: What was your interaction with him?
WL: Oh, we would…we would talk about his music. He showed me his music arrangements and everything, but they were becoming outdated. They came from the Bible Institute days; I mean that’s where their niche was. And then they were still here when we were a college, but not teaching by the time we became a university in 1981. So he was talking about things past, and I think I was looking forward. But that happens in life…when you get older you have much more to remember and less time to look ahead.
DM: We’re gonna go ahead and pause real quick and make sure this thing is recording…
(pause, asks about Marvin McKissick)
WL: Marvin McKissick was the chairman of the music department when I came and interviewed for the position. And he and Margaret Schaper were the two people auditioning me. She was head of the voice department here, later went to be the head of the voice department at USC.
And her husband was a professor at Fuller Seminary in New Testament. So, when I started, I was serving under Margaret Schaper. I sang for them, and soon after heard that I could have a job part-time. Part-time meant one class in choral techniques plus however many students signed up. And as it was, I took two other positions. I had six half-time at USC in grad school and the doctoral program and I had half-time at Pasadena College, which is now Point Loma College. I had chamber singers, and conducting, and church music, and voice. And here I had more than a full load when everybody got signed up. Nobody anticipated that at all. So instead of twelve units load, I had thirteen units at a part time salary, which at the time was 5 dollars an hour.
SG: Hmmm.
WL: And I appreciated Margaret Schaper. She was a superb teacher. She’s still living…down in Liso Viejo. She spent many years at USC, she’s well-recognized and greatly respected. Marvin McKissick was responsible for the construction of Crowell Hall, and got into the middle of a problem of having a roof high enough for good acoustics, and to provide the right ambience for the organ, which is a Canadian organ…(chuckles, all laugh). Twenty-six rank Schanz (???)
organ, and he stayed for a few years after that, and then went to Azusa Pacific. He retired from
Azusa Pacific about two years ago. But he’s been teaching one class…I think part-time. So all these years that we’ve been apart after he hired me, we’ve been teaching the same subjects. He teaches voice, conducting, and church music. And I’ve been doing the same.
DM: Why did he go to Azusa and what…did he just take a faculty position there and teach part-time or…?
WL: He was a full-time faculty member at…when he went Azusa. I don’t know the why’s.
DM: Can you say more about his wife Margaret? Er…not his wife…
WL: No, no…
DM: Can you say more about Margaret Schaper?
WL: Margaret Schaper was a quality person, and very knowledgeable. A really, really fine teacher. So it was a sad day when USC stole her away from us.
DM: When did she come to the Conservatory?
WL: I don’t know, because she was here before I came.
DM: Ok. Alright, why don’t you…can you talk a little bit about…I think your time here overlapped with Earl Hulin?
WL: No, it didn’t.
DM: It didn’t at all?
WL: No.
DM: Alright.
SG: What about…Richard Unfried? mispronounced Unfried with a long “I”
DM: Yeah.
WL: Richard Unfried pronounced correctly with a long “E”…
SG: Oh, “fried” with a long “E”.
WL: had some problem with his voice…with his name and the students didn’t know how to pronounce it. So when he spelled it “u-n-f-r-i-e-d” some students would say, well it’s “Unfried” with a long “I”.
SG: Like I just did (laughs).
WL: And he says, “No, it’s not Unfried long “I”,”…it’s I believe a German name…“it’s Unfried long “E”.” It would be Unfried long “I” in German if it was “e-i,” but it was “i-e.” So he changed his name and made it “e-i.” But that didn’t seem to help the situation at all. (all laugh). And maybe today it’s changed back again…I’m not positive. He was a superb organist, and the Schanz organ was his baby. He looked after it, he tuned it.
SG: Is that the organ that’s here?
WL: Yeah. It’s the present organ that’s been here since ’63. And it’s held up well. The hall is built for the organ. Acoustically the organ really shines in this particular space. He was also organist at the Crystal Cathedral for seventeen years. So he had a national reputation…he’s been very active in the AGO…American Guild of Organists. And so again we had another…when I came, we already had two superb teachers in their own fields. They were highly, highly recognized. He’s still playing as organist at the Evangelical Free Church in Fullerton.
SG: Really? I go there…I should talk to him!
WL: Mmhmm. He will remember a lot more than I. But he does need to have the story changed: I didn’t throw a chair through the window! The windows aren’t big enough to throw a chair through them! (laughs). I hammered the window out. (laughs)
DM: What was the students’ interaction with Richard Unfried like, that you could tell? Did the students respond well to him, was he well-liked? I guess…I don’t know how much you want to go into detail if he’s still alive…that’s up to you…but how could you tell that the students interacted with him?
WL: Yeah…that’s a long time ago. We had a good number of organ majors though, and they were wonderful. Chad Owens is still in West Covina, Tom Leonard is staff accompanist at Fullerton College and organist at Crystal Cathedral. We’ve had a number of Biola people participate in music there. He’s accompanied for us here a bit…he’s just great. These guys are whizzes. They sit down at the organ bench and they’re astounding.
SG: Well, I guess I was just a little bit interested in the fact that we had so many organ majors here before and now the program has changed so much, there’s like two that come here. Do you remember how it changed?
WL: Yeah, the sixties were the rebellious years when people were rioting against the establishment and tradition and they wanted to bring down anything….the young people. And they rallied around the music of the Beatles, so they had their own music, and then they got their own dress, and then they got their own language, and it’s like they had a whole cultural change with this large generation post Second World War…the largest population growth in a short period of time in civilization. Ever. 76 million people born between ’46, the end of the war, and
’64, when my son was born. These were what we call the Boomers. So when they were young people, they were following a different drum. And so organists became less needed because churches said, “We’re gonna lock the organ up.” And there became fewer organs, now fewer organist. So now it’s hard for a church if a church has an organ and wants to have an organist for anything…it’s hard, really difficult. We have one student now—he’s not a major—he’s a nursing major. Dave…Dave is his name.
DM: …Stevahn.
WL: Yeah.
DM: I think he’s a double major. Is he not a music major?
WL: Well, a minor. He’s a music minor. And that’s the way it is in all schools that I know of. Azusa has some because Janet Harms is there teaching organ. She used to be here more on campus, but not now. Westminster Choir College may still have some. Traditional churches, yes they all have organs…so it’s just harder to get an organist. But yeah, we had quite a few, and they were great. This whole group one time we had…we had six at one time and they sort of made their own club, and they had great times of fellowship, and I sort of weaseled in on that.
DM: They had a branch of the Guild of Organists here.
WL: Yes. Yes, sure…they had a student chapter of the AGO. That’s right.
DM: And Richard Unfried headed that up.
WL: Yeah, and they would get to go to different recitals off campus and I don’t know that we had anything on campus of AGO. But we did have a national conference of the National Church Music Fellowship, because Mr. McKissick and I, Dr. Schwarz, we were all active in that organization. It didn’t last for a long time, I think because there weren’t the funds to hire a full-time secretary and executive director. Everything was done by faculty members, such as Don Hustad at Moody and people like that on their own time. That’s my viewpoint of that, but it was a wonderful national organization for church musicians.
DM: That’s cool. Any other questions on that?
SG: No.
DM: Let’s talk about Rayner Brown.
WL: Rayner Brown was one-of-a-kind. Again, we had faculty in each position that were exceptional, and he was exceptional as a composer…his own composing style. And we have a large collection of his works in the library. But presently I haven’t heard of performances. The chamber singers when I conducted did two of his cantatas. And it’s just…you have to work at it his music to get it to sound right, yet it was quite accessible. So his composition style was unique. Nobody else was writing quite like he was writing. Interesting…he did so many different works. He would do organ works, and choir, and he would do things with individual instruments along with the organ. Stuff like that. So he gained his own reputation, things were published locally but then they were distributed nationally and then he did some programs which were broadcast overseas. So he had a national reputation through the publication of his works, but not as a recitalist. That’s a different kind of a thing. And then an international because of these radio tapes.
DM: His instrument was…
WL: Organ.
DM. Organ.
WL: Yeah.
SG: And what did he teach here? Did he teach multiple classes?
WL: Composition. Composition and organ. Yeah, so he had the composition major. Not that I remember. Dr. Schwarz has got a handle on that. And the students would come from churches where they did Gordan Hooker kind of Youth for Christ arpeggios up and down and everything, but Rayner Brown got them into serious study of organ, which sometimes was a culture shock. (chuckles) But they did fine. Composition majors too…I spent time with some of the composition majors, ‘cause I composed a little myself. And there are people like Mike Wagner who’s now Spokane, he’s not doing much composition…he’s writing jingles for radio.
SG: Hmm.
DM: Ok.
WL: That’s how he’s providing for his family.
DM: Yeah. We’d like to ask you about your composing in a little bit, but I’m curious as to…is Rayner Brown still alive?
WL: No, he died…I’m gonna say eight years ago roughly.
DM: Was he from this area?
WL: Yes, he lived in Eagle…Silver Lake.
DM: Ok.
WL: Downtown LA.
DM: Do you have any good stories about Rayner Brown?
WL: Only that (chuckles)…he became addicted to bananas. (all laugh) And every time you saw him he was holding a banana. But it’s good…banana’s a nutritious food…especially for the potassium that it holds.
DM: (laughs) So that was sort of his trademark.
WL: Yep.
DM: (laughs) Was he actually addicted to bananas or did he always just have one?
WL: I’m saying he was addicted.
SG: That’s funny.
DM: No funny stories about him throwing chairs out of windows?
WL: Oh no, no, no, no, no. No…he kept his cool. I had higher blood pressure.
DM: Shaya, anything else about Rayner Brown?
SG: No, I don’t think so…
WL: Well I can add something. Rayner Brown was intent on presenting new works. He said, “When you’ve already heard something, why do it again?” And so he was spearheading that on campus. And maybe wasn’t appreciated as much as he might have been. Just to present new works, unpublished works, whatever…for any group on campus and there was no one else driving the horse of new music.
DM: Kind of like Dr. Denham is now. (See Robert Denham )
WL: Yeah. And Mr. Owen has a great deal. But Rayner was sort of a lone ranger when it came to “let’s program new music!”
DM: Can you talk a little bit about Ray Lutke?
WL: Lutke…yeah, Ray Lutke…his wife I believe worked in the music office. Since graduating he served at a Christian college in Salem, Oregon. Is it Baptist….?
SG: He graduated from here?
WL: No, no…he was a teacher. He taught my son trombone. He was brass. And the first person to come and organize a band.
DM: That’s right!
SG: Right.
WL: Before Jim Hill had a brass quartet or quintet. And Ray Lutke came and formed the band. He was followed by Donovan Gray, who’s now at Azusa. Mr. Lutke was the most fantastic recruiter. He just got on the phone and did this first-rate job at finding people to play, and got people plugged in. I admired him for that. He and his wife have been singing evangelists since he
retired from the school in Salem, but now, I think last year they retired from that. But they had a musical family. The daughter played violin, and I forget what the other kids did, but they used to travel as the “Lutke Family.” Sunday services and stuff like that, or summer. That sort of thing. A very fine singer.
DM: So was there much opposition trying to get a band program started?
WL: No, no. I think we were ready for it. And he was the right person. Yeah, that was a good deal. And Dr. Schwarz again, he would be the person that hired him and would know more of the details than I do.
DM: Loren Wiebe.
WL: Loren Wiebe came from King’s Garden, I think they had a high school…a Christian high school in Washington. And he came here and shaped the Chorale to be just a top-notch instrument. He was very demanding, spiritually-oriented, admired by the kids, hard worker, he just did a great job.
SG: How did the Chorale change under him? Like, what was it like before he came?
WL: Well, I think Marvin McKissick had the Chorale before him, and then in between Ed Heppner taught and had the Chorale for maybe two years. And then Mr. Wiebe came. It grew out of the Bible Institute—we had everybody sing, sort of—to now a more select, polished group that would go to festivals and be recognized by other universities on an equal level. But that’s not to fault the previous choir, because there was a sense of ministry. In a Bible Institute, you go to churches to sing as a chorale for ministry. You didn’t go to festivals for the academic excellence. There was a different kind of switch there.
SG: Now the names of the main choral ensembles seemed to have changed quite a bit over the years. Who called it Chorale, and when it was called Chorale, how was that different?
WL: I think it was Chorale when Mr. McKissick was here.
SG: Oh.
WL: Yeah. And there’s a recording of Mr. McKissick and the Chorale in our archives. And there would be one probably with Ed Heppner and then many with Loren Wiebe. And that was also a time when we had “Celebrate the Son” and that was a great phenomena in that it was planned to have different performances over around campus—Sutherland Hall, maybe Marshburn Hall, and then Crowell Hall. And people left one auditorium and went to the other program. So they’d go to drama, and they would go to Chorale, and they would go to orchestra. And then they would all meet in the gym afterwards. They would be refreshments, and maybe a final finale. A musical finale in the gym. And that sparked a lot of interest and grew in numbers over the years, and then I think it might have faded as some things do—they’ve served their time—and it was a lot of work to organize it. So I think some of that ownership left maybe the music department and went to the public relations department. And they didn’t have the same interest…now Dr. Schwarz knows everything. Tell him I said that, and he has a better memory, ‘cause he’s a much younger guy! (laughter) So he can give…you’re starting with the wrong person.
DM: Well, not necessarily, even though we may have to come back and bother you again. (laughs) How much younger than you is Dr. Schwarz? ‘Cause you all joined at the same time…
WL: Well, he was a student here, and his wife, and then became faculty. So I believe he was faculty when I came.
DM: We looked in a yearbook, and it said that in 1963 you, Jennie Wong, and Jack Schwarz all joined the faculty.
WL: Yeah, but he was here before.
DM: As a student.
WL: Yeah. And ’63 we came but ’64 was when the building opened.
DM: Oh. Where was the music department housed before the current building?
WL: (laughs) We were in the Rose Memorial Library. We had one classroom…I think it would hold 15 people or something like that. There was a music office for the director and secretaries, and then there were study carrels.
SG: What is that?
WL: The study carrels that exist in the library, but they were modified to have a piano and enough space for a teacher to stand at one end of the piano and the student at the other end of the piano. I did that for a year, and I thought, “If I have to do this another year, I, I’m gonna be claustrophobic.” Fortunately we moved, to this building.
DM: Was this building a big relief?
WL: Oh, amazing…oh yeah. Yeah…‘cause we were really cramped. I also learned though when I went to USC what a marvelous program we can have with little facilities. ‘Cause Dr. Hurt (sp?) and other faculty were the same office, which is no bigger than this room. And they ran this program with 95 doctoral students and others in their Masters level. It was just a graduate program. But they had over 100 graduate students, and they ran it all from this little cubicle.
DM: At SC?
WL: Yeah.
DM: Wow. So there was a point at which Biola was…
WL: We were…we had more space than they did, yeah.
DM: Why do you think that fell out of balance? Well…let me ask this question: Is Biola…was Biola a competitor with schools like USC?
WL: No. We were a Bible…we grew out of a Bible Institute. There’s a different kind of background. USC was a Methodist school. They have a church on campus, and I sang in the chapel quartet. I was paid to be a bass in the chapel quartet.
DM: Wow. I didn’t know USC was a Methodist school.
WL: In the beginning…1880…and so they had a Methodist church on campus even when I was there.
DM: Is it still there?
WL: The building is still there and they have recitals in the building, but I don’t know that there’s any Methodist pastor.
DM: Ok. Why don’t we talk about Wilmar Wall?
WL: Wilmar Wall came from “Back to the Bible” broadcast. He was a tenor in the quartet. He had an incredibly beautiful, wonderful tenor voice…clear as a bell. He sang very musically. So he was here when Margaret Schaper was Coordinator of the voice department, and myself and Wilmar. And we worked together closely, we met often. It could have been weekly…but I remember we had quite a few meetings together. Sort of as a team. Then he went into…he got a psychology degree and became a psychologist, and set up practice for himself in Whittier. He’s still maybe doing that. But not singing, which I always thought, “Oh what a shame!”
DM: What made him move that direction?
WL: He has special interest in counseling students, and that developed into a career.
DM: That’s like Janae. (graduating voice student going to grad school for psychology).
SG: Yeah.
DM: I was thinking of Janae.
WL: Mmhmm.
DM: How do you spell his first name? We found conflicting reports in yearbooks. Is it “w-i-l-m-e-r” or “a-r”?
WL: I think it’s “a-r.”
DM: Ok.
SG: Ok.
DM: That was the more consistent one.
WL: Was it in the Biolan?
DM: Yeah. The Biolan, but…
WL: But different ways?
DM: Yeah. Must have been a typo. Or some student didn’t check their facts. (laughs)
WL: Dr. Schwarz has an answer to that question. (laughs)
SG: But we’re not interviewing him right now. It’s you. (laughs)
DM: That’s true. Oh, this is fantastic. Tell us about…well you know Paul Wohlgemuth on a different level as well. So I know that he was here before you were here.
WL: Yeah. He was chairman before Mr. McKissick and was a fine musician. He would have had Chorale too, because the chairmen were the directors of the Chorale, and there may be recordings in the archive of what he was doing.
DM: On reel-to-reel.
WL: Yes, and he was a scholar, musician, gentleman, very friendly…just all-around great guy. We worked together on the 1990 Hope Publishing Company hymnal. That was a secure project. But he died during the time we were working on that. Memory…Dr. Schwarz has this down right…but memory says it was a car accident that he was involved in.
DM: Yes. It was.
WL: And it was a tremendous loss to everybody who knew him across the country. He had gone to…hmm…better not say that…I think he went to Oral Roberts University.
DM: He did.
WL: Oh he did.
DM: You should trust your first instinct.
WL: He had a graduate program there in church music.
DM: He started at Wichita, I think…or Taber…
WL: Yes, yes, yes. Taber.
DM: …and then came here and then went to Oral Roberts, I think.
WL: Ok.
DM: We’ll check all the facts.
WL: Yeah.
DM: Can you talk a little bit more about your and…we’re eventually going to ask you about your work in the church music field, so can you say a little bit about you and Paul Wohlgemuth and church music?
WL: I wasn’t in church music education at that time that I knew him…early. Later on he was at another school and we developed a graduate program here in church music. So there was some conferring then. That was ’83. I don’t know what year he died.
DM: I think ’87.
WL: It’s in the ‘80’s. So, I only had the contact with him long distance, if you follow what I mean.
DM: Yeah.
WL: We weren’t close. He edited the Mennonite hymnal, I believe, and wrote a companion to that book.
DM: …yeah, it was ’87 (that he died).
WL: Yeah, ok. And then he wrote that small textbook that I gave you. He would have been active in the NCMF too—The National Church Music Fellowship. And he might have been the reason…although it could’ve been Marvin McKissick, that we had one the national conferences on campus in the ‘70’s.
DM: Ok.
WL: I started teaching in the church music class in ’71. So I was here several years before I was in the church music as a teacher.
DM: Ed Childs.
WL: Ed Childs is another very special person. (laughs) A unique person…an organist until his accident. A theory teacher, composition…head of the composition department. Very helpful to students, a good relationship with the students. He was a humble man, is a humble man…not was, he is. He served the Lord enthusiastically in a special missions project of developing a hymnal for Eskimos…
SG: Ahh.
WL:…a certain tribe up north Alaska…Inuit?
DM: Mmhmm.
WL: Inuit Eskimos, I think. And that consumed a lot of his extra time, but he’s been always composing. I commissioned him to write three songs on Wesley texts, which were published. And then I commissioned him to write arrangements for my chorale. We worked closely together for years and years and years. His wife is on staff at Wheaton, but he’s teaching at Moody Bible Institute. And the chairman there is also a former Biolan piano major…Cynthia Udiczech… Udi…I’m not pronouncing it right. (Note: the name is Cynthia Uitermarkt). I was the Founder’s Week Music…no…Church Music Conference speaker years before Ed got there, and I met some of the faculty. Back in ’64, I was asked if I would consider following Don Hustad as the chairman of the music department. So my contact with Moody started back in ’64, and still exists because Ed and I meet each other once in a while when we were at the Hymn conference in Ottawa a year ago. When he gets out here to see his daughter who works on campus here, and his son is an art teacher here...yeah, we get to see them when they’re visiting.
DM: So he’s still alive…but you mentioned his “accident”…
WL: He was cutting a limb off a tree and fell off the ladder and injured his arm, so he’s not able to play with one arm.
SG: Oh, how sad.
WL: A long, long period of rehabilitation. He still plays some organ with his feet and one hand.
DM: And does he still compose?
WL: Still composes, yes, yes. Teaches theory and composition at Moody. Has a lot of published works. I mean, he’s just not stopped at all and keeps writing. They tend to be very accessible kinds of songs and choral pieces, organ pieces, that have Americana in them and they’re folk-song like. And they always have some natural rise and fall and flowing melodies and everything.
Very attractive music. Widely different than Rayner Brown’s, or Robert Denham’s, or anybody else. Just…they are individuals that produce their own music.
DM: Was Rayner Brown’s music more on the cutting edge of art music?
WL: Yes, at the time, and just unique though, because nobody was writing quite the combinations of open harmonies and dissonances. So, you know, like Poulenc is so different than the other French composers, Rayner Brown was different than all the other composers. So his music has a specific stamp tonally that’s hard to describe.
DM: Do you have anything? Or should we keep going?
41:00
SG: Well, I kind of wanted to go on to Jeff Kennedy...
DM: Yeah.
WL: Oh, Jeff Kennedy was another remarkable individual who landed up getting a doctorate in educational musical theater, and that's what he's practicing now and teaching in a college. And he's...
DM: Where is he?
WL: Not sure...I think he's in Arizona or Colorado. He took his degree in New York. He was a ball of fire, very enthusiastic, completely musical. He conducted the orchestra one year when faculty was on sabbatical. But his specialty was musical theater, so...he put on great shows. One was attracting enough attention that they hired...they rented out the La Mirada Theater, and put it on there, but there's always scheduling problems there, to get in there and have enough rehearsal time in the last week. That's my viewpoint, I'm from a distance—Dr. Schwarz knew exactly what was going on so when you talk to him, you'll get the right story about Jeff Kennedy. He developed a smaller group, I don't know what it was called, but they had a large group too, something like 75 kids in a choir, before the Gospel choir...
SG: Was it called the University Singers?
WL: University Singers, that's the name of it, yeah, University singers—large group—which was more pop and it was like what we would call now the Gospel Choir, but he did more than Gospel music as such...
SG: Now, was that in existence at the same time as the Chorale? Were they separate?
WL: Yeah, yeah, they were separate groups. And again, he was a great recruiter. And then he encouraged dance classes for musical theater, other things that we hadn't had before.
SG: Too bad we don't still have those.
WL: Yeah, he would get kids plugged into acting class and stuff like that, just so they had help in being the best they could be in musical theater.
SG: So, about the productions that he did that ended up at the La Mirada Theater through Biola...
WL: One time they were there, but the other times they were here.
SG: Oh, right. Did he direct those?
WL: Yeah.
SG: Do you remember what shows they were?
WL: Oh my, nope. Nope. I'd have material in my files, probably, but I couldn't name the specific ones that he did.
SG: Now was he kind of alone in the musical theater representation at Biola?
WL: Oh yeah, that's what I remember, yeah. He was the person that that was his area of expertise and nobody else was qualified to the high degree that he was. So we've had the right people, you know, as organ teachers, the right people as composition, the right people as musical theater, in voice, and that's a good situation. Although, I've been a kind of a jack-of-all-trades, in that there were times when there wasn't someone for music cultures, so I taught Music Cultures for 2 years. And then there wasn't anyone for Conducting class, so I taught Conducting class for 7 years. I did Chamber Choir for 7 years, and then Mr. Wiebe took that. Then, I also taught Music Appreciation and Theory, and I taught a course in Choral Literature, and I taught Choral Arranging, so I was in a bunch of different areas as needed. and I might teach something for...I had Church Music—History—I had Church History, all 3 units, from Medieval times to 20th Century for several years.
DM: Church History?
WL: Sorry, Music History.
SG: Oh, ok.
WL: Music History. And then I've had Church Music, and then I've had a graduate program that I administrated from '83 to '90.
DM: Can you talk more about the Master's in Church Music?
WL: Master's in Church Music degree came partly because the undergraduates that we had interested in serving in the church were not being hired, because the church did not hire a single guy—they didn't hire women at the time—with minimal experience and only a Bachelor's degree. So, it was Dr. Schwarz's inspiration to start a graduate program. It took 2 years of groundwork before we got accreditation. And then we graduated our first class in somewhere around the mid-80's, graduated about 6 students in the first class. And we had Leadership, we had Worship, we had Practicum, they all had to be active in a church, they had to present on a program, they had to present on a church service using the arts...we had workshops in Orff instruments, workshops in drama, workshops in instruments, all of the instruments of the orchestra...It was a really, really top-notch program. Nothing in the West—except in Texas—that was like it.
SG: So then, when the program died out, was it because of a lack of interest in it, or...
WL: No, we had a new provost come and as soon as he came to campus he says “We can't afford this.”
SG: Hmm...
SG: Do you think that there's any chance that a program like that could come back?
WL: Should be a program like that.
DM: Let's—can we go back a little bit? We missed a few people, we started pulling further and further forward. Can you talk more about Jennie Wong?
WL: Oh, Jennie Wong came from Hong Kong. She was a first-rate concert pianist—she is, although I haven't heard her recently since she retired. We moved into this building and shared an office together. The building wasn't big enough...
SG: Even when it was built. (laughs)
WL:...when we moved in. (laughs)
DM: Wasn't that the first year? (laughs)
WL: And...Dr. Denham's office and Dr. Liesch's office was one room called the "Faculty Lounge"—we never really got to use it either...
You could go anywhere and not hear better playing. She had a way with her students that she...urged them on in the most understanding way and they just have excelled. So, it's laid the groundwork for Dr. Hung coming, and it's been very exciting to see our piano majors as such a strong entity. You know, so you talk about USC, they're strong in piano, they're strong in composition, and they're strong in strings. But, UCLA has strong ethnomusicology and composition and some other areas...Piano was just amazing. They were the strength—in my viewpoint, my personal viewpoint—the strength of the department, was in the piano.
SG: Because of her?
WL: Uh-huh, absolutely, just single-handed. And, she's the one who had Mr. Pressler come back again and again. He's honored with a plaque on the library, as you're walking toward the front door...
DM: Yeah, I've seen that.
WL: Yeah, and...
DM: Who paid for that plaque?
WL: I have no idea.
DM: It's just...ok.
WL: But you'll see my name there too—WE paid for that! (laughs)
DM: Yeah, that's why I wondered!
WL: So, one time—she sits down at the piano and you'd be in another world—but one time, the students—this is my recollection again—the students rented a Bluthner piano, I think, and I think the program was Mozart, and she sat down and played for an hour of Mozart. And it was just...just amazing. Just amazing. That was a special night.
DM: Do you remember what year that was?
WL: Nope. But she played a recital every year, and often she would practice all through the summer and have her program in early September. She's accompanied me a number of times. The last year that I sang professionally, she accompanied me in the "Ten Biblical Songs" of Dvorak.
SG: Oh, those are beautiful.
WL: So, that was the year I stopped singing. She's still teaching at home.
DM: We've covered almost everyone, there's two more people I'd like to get to, and then I have a few more questions for you...Edwin Heppner.
WL: Ed Heppner was here for only maybe about two years—not a long time, and he served one year, I think, as interim chair of the department, and he had the Chorale. I'm thinking his area of expertise was Music Ed, I'm not positive.
SG: And he had the Chorale for a year?
WL: Mm-hmm. I have no idea where he's gone to, you didn't ask me about Jim Hill either.
DM: Oh, Jim Hill. Yeah, we've been meaning to ask you...
WL: And he was chairman for a few years.
DM: Yeah, talk about James Hill.
WL: And...I came and Marvin McKissick left, and Ed was maybe the interim, and then Jim came.
SG: And then he became the chairman?
WL: Yeah, he was the chairman...that's about enough to say about him.
DM: John Browning.
WL: Ohh, John Browning. I believe he's teaching still in Ontario and he's been minister of music at his church in...out by Hemet, out that way...
DM: Yucaipa...
WL: ...Yucaipa, for years. Small church, wonder if it's Christian Missionary Alliance, something like that. So, he's been a practicing church musician, but a composer and I was the chair of the committee that brought him here. I've been chairman of the committee for Shawna Stewart and John Browning. We had a national search and we had a fellow, and he turned us down so we had to start the search for another composition teacher all over again, so it's it's like been 3 committees that I was chairing. And Dr. Browning has written some gorgeous music, and my chorale has done one of his pieces, "The Prayer of St. Francis." Very intelligent person, with a vocabulary that never stopped. And I think some of the students would want to stop him and ask him, “What do you mean? What does that word mean?” because it wouldn't be in their vocabulary. But very articulate. He...he had an interest in other fields as well, besides composition, like theology.
DM: How did the composition program change under John Browning? Or did it?
WL: Hmm....Dr. Schwarz has an answer to that. I'd have to think about those things. I'd have to dig and dig...there's so much up here points to head and you have dig to get at anything. Unless it's a major experience, then it's in the top of my brain.
DM: Let's talk about Jack Schwarz and what he contributed.
WL: Uh...Jack Schwarz started without experience as such in administration, as I remembered, except that he was music minister at Granada Heights Friends Church for 17 years and built a credible program with adult choirs and children's choirs and a handbell choir, and so there's always administration involved in that. And then developed his administration skills over the years. And, early on, I was very impressed with his attention to detail—nothing was left undone, “I'll do that”, “I'll look into that”, or whatever it was, and then you'd get a response back. He just didn't drop things through the cracks. So, everything got looked after, whether it was facilities, whether it was curriculum, whether it was accreditation, whether it was hiring faculty, whether it was...any area at all, and we would all know in music faculty meetings just what was going on. And he'd try to involve us—we'd be prety busy, but he'd try to get us involved in different ways. And he developed the skill to be just one the best administrators in the area, and I've done a fair amount of administration myself. So, that was a 30-year period that he was chairman, and proof enough, because he's been asked again and again each year, “Will you fill this position, we've just lost a vice-provost” or, “we've just lost a dean” or “will you do this during the winter while we search for a full-time replacement?” And he's a young man, so that he can do this, and keep on filling positions. So, that's the last thing—last week it was mentioned, when it was announced that Dr. Miller is leaving as provost, "Well, have they asked Jack Schwarz yet to fill in for a year while they look for somebody else?" (laughs)
DM: That would be awesome.
SG: Maybe then you could get the Master of Music back.
WL: Mmhmm! Yes! (laughs)
DM: That would be amazing!
WL: Yes! But he's just a man of great gifts and much appreciation. He attended all of the ensembles, he supported the faculty 100%, he came to as many recitals of individual students that he could--it's just phenomenal what he has done, and I think at one time he was advising all the majors. And he had his hand on everything, I mean, that's why I keep saying, “You talk to him” because he has his hand on stuff. I'm talking about things sort of at a distance compared to him, because he's been the hub—he's been the thing that's kept this wheel going and kept it oiled and kept everything, and so much is owed him. Not any individuals, just him, in getting this team working and improving. In 1970 we got accreditation with NASM and there's been all of these reviews over every 5 to 10-year period, whichever it is, and he's been completely involved in that.
SG: Was he the one that originally got the NASM accreditation process started?
WL: That's probably true, I don't remember for a fact. I'm pretty sure he was chairman at that point.
SG: Did the program change a lot to fit the accreditation...program?
WL: NASM was young at that time—we were one of the early schools—so I don't know how much NASM has changed, but it's been good for us, because it kept us at a certain standard. And the change when we first joined...I wasn't involved in that, but there would've been some change, because we were coming out of this Bible school, Bible Institute movement and we were one of the founding members of the Accrediting Association of Bible Colleges. We've since dropped out of that, which I'm sorry to say, when we became a university. We still keep the chapel requirement and Christian service emphasis and 30 units of Bible, and I think we should still belong to that, but anyways, we don't. But at that time, we were strengthening our program and NASM was laying down guidelines, and I think it was hand-in-glove that we were growing and developing at the same time they were.
DM: I have one more person to ask about: Russell Stepan.
WL: Russell Stepan was head of the piano department, a superb pianist, and he was in the office I am in. And that was a small classroom that could house as many as 10 students. There was a chalk board on the wall. Two pianos in there for piano majors. And he had a tight ship, as I remember. One time he just put up a sign-up sheet on the door that says, “If you've got your piece memorized, sign up for a lesson.”
SG: Oh, wow.
Wouldn't I love to say that to voice students! “When you've got your song memorized, then we'll have a lesson.” Then we could do like a master class, then we could do some work, not be teaching notes or any of that sort of stuff. And, so he conducted and led us into strengthening the piano major. Then he moved to San Francisco, and I haven't heard from him since then.
DM: Tell us about The Carillons...
WL: Carillons was the chamber choir I had for 7 years. And we didn't encroach on the Chorale because we did things different. Mr. Wiebe at the time was not doing foreign languages (in Chorale), and we did foreign languages. The Chorale was not doing anything in costume and we did a madrigal feast in costume. The Chorale wasn't doing music with recorders, not doing Bach Cantatas. We were just different. Chamber choir's different anyways, but we were also purposely doing things differently than the Chorale so as not to...problem became, though, sometimes I'd have a whole group of wonderful tenors and then another time I wouldn't, because the tenors were in Chorale. They had to be in 2 groups, and didn't always have time to do that. Sometimes I had a great group of sopranos, sometimes I didn't, so I gave that up in '75 and formed my own group off campus.
SG: Which is the William Lock Singers?
WL: Mm-hmm.
DM: Well, I was gonna ask about that too…can you talk about the William Lock Singers?
WL: Well, that started when I didn't have chamber choir, and I started with 11 singers, and we did things in costume. We did a Christmas feast for 10 years and our audiences would generally be about 750 people. And then we grew because we were doing some spring things, besides the Christmas madrigal feast. We would be doing a spring program with instruments and that group would be about 40, and then we grew to 60 and then we grew to 80 and then we grew to 100. But we purposely at one time after 10 years stopped all the drama and costume stuff—we burned everybody out, and we went to performing major works that were composed with orchestra. So we did "St. Matthew's Passion," "Belshazzar's Feast," and "Messiah," and Poulenc—oh my goodness—Honniger's "King David," Haydn, Lord Nelson Mass...just year after year we did major works.
SG: Is that what you still do?
WL: No, I sort of retired and cut the group down to 33 and we don't have orchestra. So now we have more fun and less work. We sing only—all these years we've only sung sacred works, it was actually, at one time, as far as we could find out, the Christian concert choir in the country. Other choirs are connected to a church, connected to a school, but this was an independent Christian concert—auditioned, Christian concert choir and orchestra.
DM: Just because I know that administration is difficult for these sorts of things, where did you get funding for these—for the project?
WL: A group of 35 friends gave thousands of dollars for every program. Yeah, I did the recruitment, my wife got the orchestra. A mom and pop organization that just grew.
SG: And you still—do you travel, or...
WL: No, it's always been a group in the area, they've always voted down any travel. They all are busy, busy people and most of them are in their own church choirs and they have family and that.
DM: It's 1:00, we don't want to keep you beyond your time, but if you'd like to keep going we have a couple more questions for you.
WL: Yup.
SG: Well, we could even just generalize it and let you take it from there, just like—talk about your professional academic background and compositions, just all about you.
WL: Yes, 'cause you can always wipe it out! laughs I studied at the Royal Conservatory of Music in Toronto, that's an organization that has teaching studios across the country. I got the gold medal when I graduated for highest marks in voice for the entire country. I moved from the University of Toronto to the University of Minnesota, and then to USC, where I got my Doctorate in Conducting and Church Music. I took my Master's degree at University of Minnesota in Voice.
SG: What about your career since then?
WL: Yeah, the Lord called me to 3 things, and I've tried to keep current in all three areas—it's like being 3 people in 1! One was as a singer, teacher of singing, and one as a conductor in choral music, and another as a church musician and an author, and the interrelationship between those three. So, as a singer I've had a professional career for more years than anybody. And then as a teacher of singing I've been teaching in various countries and other schools on special occasions and workshops and festivals and everything else, so both as a singer and a teacher of singers I've had a whole career just doing that. Then as a conductor in choirs, I've worked with professional choirs, I've worked with young choirs, church choirs, everywhere. Bunch of different countries as well as Canada and the United States. And I used to have a column in the ACDA magazine for three years on chamber choirs. So, I got into writing, so I've been an author for many many articles on church music and voice and conducting. And choirs. And teaching church music seminars and everything. So I've done three things that I could've had a whole career just in one area and I've been doing three. I could do a lot of reading, and I am as current as I can possibly be in all fields.
DM: And composing?
WL: Oh, composing. Composing's always been a kind of a hobby...
DM: In your spare time?
WL: Yeah, yeah. It started when I was 13, I was taking piano lessons and I took this piece to my teacher and she says, “Oh, that's very interesting—that's a Bach chorale!” Somewhere in my mind I had this whole thing down, all four parts of this Bach chorale, and I'd written that out, but it led me to getting a composition teacher when I was a teenager. So all through high school I was taking voice lessons—I started voice when I was 11—and composition when I was 13, and I started piano when I was 6. So all through high school I was taking three music lessons a week. School didn't do too well...I was doing too much singing and too much practicing. After that, I took some composition at University of Minnesota, and then I studied under Halzie 
Stevenson and George Lynn at USC, but my composition is just spare time when I have time, and it's just almost totally high school level choral music, and I probably have about 60 things. I have probably had some 15 published pieces.
SG: Have any of the groups at Biola performed your pieces?
WL: No, my own chorale has and some other chorales around this area. Yeah, and in other cities. But not Biola groups.
DM: And those are choral works mostly?
WL: They're all choral works, I tied one with brass in Oregon, but I did another with just piano, for just the John Thompson grade 2 level. Yeah, I don't do any instrumental music; it's a hobby, and my love is singing and conducting.
SG: When did you last perform? Like, I know that there are faculty recitals here all the time—when did you last perform in a faculty recital here?
WL: Well, Miss Wong and I did the "Ten Biblical Songs" and that's gotta be at least 6 years ago.
DM: Did she come back?
WL: No, before she retired.
DM: Oh, so it would've been like her last year here.
WL: Maybe, maybe.
DM: Dr. Hung's only been around for about that long.
WL: And the same spring I was soloist of the Verdi requiem with Chorale and Orchestra. I've sung with a lot of orchestras over the years, but it's been cantatas, oratorios, and all of the major oratorio arias...
SG: Oh, one thing I was curious, I noticed in a yearbook there used to be an Oratorio Chorus.
WL: Oh, I had that one year, we took turns. Mr. Wiebe would have it, then I'd have it, then Dr. Schwarz would have it. We got all the people together, we'd have 80+. We didn't have as large of a department, but everybody sang. We did Elijah—I was soloist for Elijah one year—in the gym. Gosh I don't remember---we did Haydn's Creation. We just did major standard things, so once in 4 years, everybody would have covered 4 major works. Every student would know 4 major works.
SG: Every voice student, or...?
WL: Every student, every music student!
DM: Everyone was in it?
WL: Yeah, everyone was in it. Yeah, so it was a short time, we had only spring, and we only had a certain number of weeks. I don't remember whether it was 8 or what. They do it at Azusa now, but it's a requirement, and it's for the whole semester, I believe. So people are in Oratorio Chorus and they're in their other ensemble too.
SG: So you would do it once a year?
WL: Just spring, yeah, once a year.
SG: And how long did that continue for?
WL: How many years we did that? Probably five.
DM: Can you talk a little bit about how the dynamic of the music department has changed while you've been here? Do they work harder or not work as hard, or...whether they're more creative now or not...just talk about how the environment, the atmosphere as changed, as you remember it.
WL: The Lord has sent so many different students to Biola. We've always had this kind of mix of those that didn't know their way around and those that were well-prepared for college music. And being a part of NASM and Dr. Schwarz's leadership and the continuing faculty now has strengthened the program so that what we had with Miss Wong and Margaret Schaper and everything is not diminished, but just blossomed. So that it's not unrealistic or untruthful to say the solo concerto this program...this semester was spectacular. The 3 vocal solos were just wonderful. The 2 pianists did a great job with the Chopin. Ryan has improved so much in his trumpet playing, he really made the Haydn sound great. Glenn and the Vivaldi was just spectacular, and the orchestra was doing all that work for these soloists, and to change from piece to piece, and from style to style is no easy thing. A lot of people do not appreciate the orchestra enough or Mr. Owen's work enough. He's a superb musician and these students rallied to play for these soloists. All these different things. It's so much easier to make up a program of orchestra music. So, that's just hats off to Mr. Owen. (See: Marlin Owen )
SG: Yeah, I think it's the smoothest I've ever seen a concerto concert go.
WL: Yes, it was just...you know, the few times when you just say, “Wow!” Once in a while, you get to say “Wow!” Dr. Hung's recital was the same, she is a world-class soloist, so was Jennie Wong. You're just in another place when she sits down and music communicates so strongly. So to have these two programs in one semester is just breathtaking—but wait 'til Mr. Pressler gets here!
(See: Li-Shan Hung, Menahem Pressler. )
SG: Sensory overload.
WL: Mm! And here we are, we've never attracted huge crowds. The largest crowd we ever had here was the first recital program in this building. And ever since we've never rallied the same forces, for a number of reasons. But the first artist in our hall was Marilyn Horne, and that was before she became the leading mezzo in the world. She lived in Long Beach, she studied with a teacher I had at USC, and she became the world's finest mezzo-soprano. This was when she was launching her career, and she brought a lot of her fans, and so the whole auditorium was packed and the whole lobby was packed. We've never had to put chairs out—or maybe the fire department won't allow us to do it—but we've never had that many people, we've always had just what the hall fills. Except of course, when they have ensembles for Parents' Day, PRISM, so then we have two. We have two.
DM: Christmas Concert.
WL: We could never get them in for one. Christmas Concert, yeah, when we have to have two. But that's all the ensembles bring all their parents and friends and everybody else, but this was a solo artist, and the yelling and the cheering was just---WHOA! I remember that, and that was '64, fall of '64, and I remember it like it was yesterday. I don't remember the selections that she sang—she's just the most amazing Rossini singer there is, so it would've been some Rossini, I think.
DM: We were going to ask you briefly how each administration has helped music, the music department grow—
SG: Like, the general, main administration.
DM: Sam Sutherland was the president when you first got here—
WL: Dr. Schwarz has an answer to that, 'cause he's been there. Sam Sutherland was sort of running the roost. And he was that kind of gregarious man that had his heart and soul in the Bible School. Dr. Chase had a Doctorate in Speech, I believe from Cornell University, and he was a different kind of president and I spent a lot of time under him, but I knew the family—the Chase family and the Sutherland family...We were a small college of 1000 at that time, and we always called ourselved the Biola family, and then when Dr. Chase was here and we were a university—he's the son-in-law of Sam Sutherland—we were 2000, and we changed. But he was also a different kind of president. And Clyde Cook with his interest in missions was a different kind of person too. And I was so honored when he included me in his funeral plans to sing two solos and lead the songs. And I also sang at his 50th wedding anniversary the former summer. So then they had 50 years together. And he was the kind of guy that was always sending thank-you notes—nobody like him. And every time I saw him, he would say hello. I didn't matter how many people were gathered around, whether it was a concert or whether it was some other place on campus, you know, he'd just would take a second to reach out in time. He's just—they're just all gifted men in their own fields, and when you accept the best of them, you can appreciate what the Lord's done through them for Biola. So, things are different? Yes, things are different, but they've been good differences. I don't see—I don't see the negatives. Now, there been people that come to me and they complain, and I say, “Tsk. Be quiet!” Some people just complain to complain. They've got the bad attitude. So they find something that's wrong, say, “Oh, they're not raising enough funds,” or “They're not communicating enough, they're not open enough...” So along comes Dr. Corey (see: Barry H. Corey) who's got a different emphasis yet, and...I think he's a great man, he's articulate, he's the right person, he's a good fit for Biola, so we'll see good things as long as he's here. You get what you look for. You want some of my philosophy of life?
DM: Yes.
WL: No you don't! laughing You've got way too much material. If you talk to all these different people this long, you're not going to graduate!
DM: Well we'll fill our course requirement!
SG: We sure will!
WL: laughing
DM: Well, thank you Dr. Lock. This has been a pleasure. We have learned a lot, and it's been very enjoyable.
SG: Thank you very much.
WL: So, when you can't find answers to other questions, you can call me back.
DM: We will, definitely. Dave Martina and Shaya Greathouse on April 13th with William Lock. Thank you.