firsthand

Oral History Transcript

Biola University Centennial Oral History Project

INTERVIEWEE: Margaret Hart

INTERVIEWER: Heidi Myers

DATE: December 8, 2006

NOTE: There is a lot of laughter throughout the interview. I have noted those at the beginning to give you the rhythm of the conversation.

NOTE: I edited out most of Margaret Hart’s false starts.

HEIDI MYERS: My name is Heidi Myers; I am interviewing Margaret Hart. Today is December 8, 2006. We are in are at the Mount Miguel Covenant Village Retirement Community. And by including you, Margaret, in this Biola Centennial Oral History Project, we will acquire a more complete and detailed picture of our university’s history. Do you mind this interview being recorded?

MARGARET HART: Not at all.

Personal Background

Family

HM: Great. Just to start out. How did you end up with Biola?

MH: That’s a good question. (laughs) Well, I attended Biola. Well, first of all, let me just say a little background of my family. My brother attended Biola and graduated the day I was born. Because my mother, she had four children—two boys and two girls—in the family. And they were all in their teens and early adult age, all of them, four of them. And then when she was forty-five years old, she became pregnant with me. And I was a surprise. (laughter) And so, here the first thing I knew about my older brother, one of my brothers, was he graduated from Biola and he came home and he found out that I had been born. (laughter) In other words, he was in Los Angeles, you know, at Biola, and we were living in Denver, Colorado. And (laughs) this is what I’ve been told. He had had worked in college and whatever. But he wanted, well I don’t know about going to college in those days, I’m not sure about that. (laughs) But he did go to Biola and I think it was probably a three-year Bible course in those days. Now this was back in 1917. I mean, well, I guess, 1917. I was born in 1917. (laughs) I am going to have my ninetieth birthday in this next year.

HM: How exciting!

MH: I’m eighty-nine. And I’m going to be ninety. (laughter) So I’m grateful for the Lord’s guidance that… Well, they thought they had their family, two boys and two girls, you know. And we’re all grown up and kind of in their teens. And then mother, all of a sudden, she got pregnant. (laughs)

HM: Oh, no. (laughs) So you grew up hearing of Biola then?

MH: Yes, I knew about Biola.

HM: Right from the get-go.

MH: That’s right, that’s right. And so I, well I went to school. Of course, what do you need to know now?

HM: OK. You went to Biola then. So you grew up in Colorado.

MH: Yes, in Denver, Colorado.

HM: Did you live there after you graduated high school? Did you go to Biola then down in Los Angeles?

College: Biola and UCLA

MH: Yes. I went to Biola when the school then had a three-year Bible course. There wasn’t any degree or anything; it hadn’t developed into that yet. And so I finished and I forget the date of it, but anyway, it was in the early years. First thing out of high school, I went to Biola and took the three years of Bible courses. Then when I realized I needed to go to college. So then I started going to UCLA, which had a part of their program, closer by. I didn’t have to go all the way down to the other…

HM: Campus.

MH: Campus, yes. But anyway, so I did get my education.

HM: What was your degree at UCLA?

MH: Well, I just got a college degree, you know like you get when you go to college. But then I did go to, later on I realized I needed to get some more education. And I did. I went to Talbot Seminary and I got a degree there. And then I was studying some, doing some studies, and they told me that I was going to be given a doctor’s degree, or something (laughs) because I was in the graduate work. So I, at Fuller Seminary, I got a degree there. It was eventually a ministerial degree. But, no, it was a Christian education. No they were offering Christian education as well as the ministerial part.

HM: OK. So you got a Christian education.

MH: So I got the Christian education in. Uh-huh, yeah. And I worked as a Christian Ed director in churches and loved it. It was just so interesting. You work with the babies, see that there was provision for the parents with the babies and for the children, young people, and the young married people, and then the grandmas, you know, everybody. I’d just see to it that everybody had the studies and the education they should have, you know, in a good-sized church. And I loved it; that was really nice, fun.

HM: That’s so fun. So you went to Biola, got your three years of Bible. Then you went to UCLA and just got your college degree. Then you realized you wanted more education. And then you went Talbot.

MH: Yes.

HM: And then you went to Fuller?

MH: Yes.

HM: Wow! And then you started working in Christian education programs in churches.

MH: Well, in between that, in between I had some jobs in churches.

HM: I see. So you didn’t do that all right in a row.

MH: No, oh, no—in between.

Dean of Biola

HM: OK. So after that, is that when you came back to work as the first dean of Biola?

MH: Yes, I guess I was the first because I was just finishing something that I had been studying that I needed. And I know one of the men at the ministers’ table were, oh, he said. Margaret, now what is it you’re working. You’re going to get a degree at Talbot… No, not Talbot…

HM: Fuller?

MH: Fuller, yeah. Oh dear, the one I mentioned it a few minutes ago. Where ministers get going, usually get their degree. But they do have a Christian education course.

HM: Fuller Seminary?

MH: Fuller Seminary! That was it. So then he said, oh, he says, then will you come and be… I want you now. Now you’re qualified. I want you to come and be dean of Biola’s education program.

HM: Oh, my goodness.

MH: You know. They didn’t have a big program then. I mean, just to oversee it, that’s all. It was a matter that I just had to… It was like somebody in a dormitory and you just see to it that everybody is busy and everybody is doing the right thing. You know, kind of like, and see about their dating or unusual plan that they had, what they had to do when they had a vacation or whatever. If it’s different, if it’s anything different about it, they had to come through my office to see about it. And I enjoyed that. I mean it was fun. And it was a joy to work with them.

HM: So then, did you live in the dormitory?

MH: No. They never… Right from the beginning they said, we don’t want you to live in the dormitory. You’ve got to live outside in whatever place you choose. So I never lived in a dorm.

HM: So, can you tell me some stories at all about those days? Especially the first couple of years—what kind of things did you do? What happened?

MH: Well, I don’t recall there was anything unusual except that I was just overseeing things. And I enjoyed it so much; to me, it was a very easy job. But I remember the challenge came, there was this one girl in school—this is the only thing that just really challenged me and I didn’t know what to do. But I had prayed for the Lord to give me guidance before I started. Lord, I said, you know I don’t know what to do. These young people are going to have problems that I won’t know what to do, how to solve, you know? Please help me. So I asked the Lord to help me. Am I talking too much?

HM: Oh, no! I love it!

Students Hart Worked With

MH: OK. And so I had one girl—this is when I was a dean—or maybe just before that. She just didn’t want to do anything that was kosher and right. She just, you know, was just on the negative side of everything. And the person—of course, we had people in the dorms, who were overseeing them, you know, directors, leaders in the dorms—and these people, they just had a problem with her all the time. So it came to my office and so I didn’t know exactly what, of course, I prayed about it. And then I thought, I’m going to have her pay her own way and send herself home for a week. She lived in Texas. And I said—and here we were in southern California—so I called her in and said, you know, we had talked about the problems and she just couldn’t manage to handle the program we had.

And so I thought, well this is something I think that I’d better call in the main dean—the man in charge—and then he can call in his…whoever. I think they should know what I’m doing because I’m sending her home for a week. So she got her ticket to go on the plane, paid for it herself—of course, that was the arrangement—she had to pay her own way. And I arranged for somebody, I asked them, please arrange for somebody to take her from her home, her apartment, to the plane when it is time for her to leave. And have that somebody pick her up when she comes back and bring her back to the campus. We’ll take care of that transportation. I didn’t want to lose out on some of the ways we were trying to fix it. And so, it worked out very well.

And so, she went home for a week, and I didn’t talk to her parents at all, not one word. And I told her, I said now, your parents don’t know you’re going home but it’s up to you to tell them “why?” Why are you home for a week? So that was it. Well, then she went home for one week and then she came back and we met her at the airport and brought her back to whatever. And, boy! She was like a different person!

HM: Really?

MH: Completely different. Her attitude was so positive and so good. And I could just see the smile on her face; it was like a different person. She had, I think she had never really known Christ as her Savior before. That’s my idea. I didn’t question this but I could tell. Her face beamed. She was happy, and, of course, I talked with her a little bit because I had questioned the main dean over me. He called me and he said, now, that girl was going to come home? Yes. Well, how did she act? And I said, well, it was like a different person. She was just relaxed and she was happy and just entirely different. What I think happened was that she really didn’t know Jesus Christ as her personal Savior before. And so her father and mother had been students at school the same time I was, so I knew them fairly well, not too well. But anyway, no comment—I didn’t talk to them at all. There was no point. All the communication was between the girl and me and then she just had to tell her parents what was wrong. She came back a different person.

Well, anyway, I just thank the Lord because He is the one that worked this out. Anyway, well I don’t know what we’re talking about. (laughs) That was the most challenging thing that I had. And I did depend on the Lord’s wisdom because He had to show me. I didn’t talk to the girl at all and I let her tell her parents why she was home.

HM: It sounds like you handled it really well. Definitely. How long did you work at Biola?

MH: Oh, my. Now that’s a difficult question to answer. I remember, let’s see… Well, I was there earlier, I guess. And then of course, I had business in churches. I was in some of the big, large churches that could afford to have somebody in charge of youth, young people, you know, especially. And so, working with all different ages. So I can’t tell you how long but anyway. They came to me at the very last (unclear) came and he said, he wanted to hear my heart beat. And he said, well, you got to quit work. Your body tells us; you’ve got to quit work. In other words, I guess my heart was acting up; I was not aware of it. Well, I was very tired, very weary, very weary, but I just kept going. So then they finally, I had to quit because of my health. And that was the finale.

HM: Yes, definitely. For this project, I actually interviewed Dave Peters—do you remember him?

MH: No.

HM: I told him I was going to be interviewing you and he said…

MH: Did he remember me?

HM: He did! He said that you were such a great lady. In fact, I wrote down what he said about you. He said that you were a strong, attractive, and irrepressible woman. (laughter) Would you say these things describe you? (laughter) Oh, man! I just thought I’d mention that. He was very complimentary.

MH: Well, that was very kind of him. But, no, it’s the Lord. I just gave myself… Actually I had to give myself to Him for Him to work out. And, you know, to send a girl home for a week, to Texas, not to talk to her parents, but just let her handle it. That was something the Lord showed me how to do it. I couldn’t have done it myself. I didn’t want to get mixed up with parents. So the Lord took care of that for me and I know that, well, the Lord Jesus is a Precious One that solves our problems and shows us what to do.

Family at Biola

HM: Amen to that. Were you… You grew up in Colorado—you mentioned that earlier.

MH: Yes.

HM: So even though your brother went to Biola, did all your siblings go to Biola as well? Or was it just your oldest brother and you?

MH: I don’t think that… I had a sister, I think, who went to Biola for… Yes, I think she attended Biola, maybe graduated. I graduated. I can’t recall. Then, no, I had an older sister, even older than she, who went to Moody. And she met her life partner there and they married and they went as missionaries. So she and he, they were missionaries. But they went to India as missionaries and all those years, it was a very, almost impossible field, for them to get into. Because the country was so new and against Christian things and so on. So, anyway, they were there—and his health was the reason they came home, they had to come home because of his health. And they became missionaries elsewhere. But anyway, I had two sisters and two brothers, and then I came along.

HM: So, when you went to Biola, you were just looking specifically for the Bible training?

MH: Well, I wanted to do what the Lord… I just said, Lord, you’re in charge of my life. I want you to be in control. You guide us to where I go and what I do, and I belong to You. So, it was the Lord that led me to Biola.

Biola's Mission Statement

HM: That’s so neat. The mission statement of Biola, were you aware of what it was?

MH: Well, I was not particularly concerned or involved with the missions. And I ended up as a Christian Ed director here in the United States, helping churches and so on.

HM: OK. How about, you obviously knew what Biola stood for and what it’s purpose was in equipping young men and women for the Lord, to impact the world for the Lord, Jesus Christ.

MH: That’s right.

HM: So you obviously were very happy about that, I assume, right?

MH: Oh, yes.

HM: Right, me too.

MH: I enjoyed it.

HM: Do you think that in your years working at Biola they still held very strongly to that purpose?

MH: I have not been so close to all of what’s going on, although I’m sure it’s very splendid, whatever they’re doing. They couldn’t do otherwise. ‘Cause they want the Lord’s will. But I haven’t been closely connected, no.

HM: What about in your years working at Biola? Did you feel that they held strongly to that purpose then?

MH: Oh, yes, of course. Sure, there was a definite purpose of putting the Lord first, whatever the Lord wanted for our lives.

HM: That’s so neat. You mentioned at the beginning, when you went it was specifically just for Bible. Was it during your time working then at Biola that it became more of a liberal arts college, to where they offered other things other than Bible?

MH: That was when I wasn’t there. See, I had some contact with Biola at first because I was… I finished their Bible course, which is probably only three years in those days. And then I went on to college. And then I was working in churches as a Christian Ed director, and so on. And got into Christian education. So I really was not aware, connected, or knowing what was going on at Biola for quite a few years.

HM: I’m just kind of going to switch directions here, if you don’t mind?

MH: Good.

Hart Hall Naming

HM: Were you aware that there is a residence hall at Biola right now?

MH: Yes.

HM: That’s named after you?

MH: (laughs) They decided they wanted to do it. I had nothing to do with it.

HM: I actually have a lot of friends who live there, and so, it was just really neat. I got to say, I’m going to interview Margaret Hart of Hart Hall—get it? (laughter)

MH: It was their idea. I had nothing to do with it.

HM: Great. But you were obviously very noteworthy at Biola and definitely impacted Biola’s community.

MH: Well, honey, it’s not “I,” it’s the Lord.

HM: Right.

MH: Because I just said, Lord, I’m your property. I belong to You and You do whatever… Why was I born? You know why and you do whatever You want with me.

School Milestone's During Hart's Years

HM: So neat. What are some of the things in your times, specifically at Biola, maybe when you were working there as the dean, that you would feel would be significant milestones? Or accomplishments? Or things that Biola did that you were really impressed with? Or things that the Lord did while you were working at Biola?

MH: Well, my dear, that’s a good question. And I wish I could be really specific. Because I wasn’t very close to Biola, you know, I just wasn’t connected with Biola at all for many years while I was working with churches and doing other things. But I was so glad that Biola was… I was so thrilled that it kept growing and growing and growing. And, you know, I should tell you this. I told you one of my brothers graduated from Biola, or finished, it was probably then a Bible school, a three-year Bible school. This was back in the year that I was born.

HM: Right, 1917.

Family

MH: That’s right. And the thing was, you see, my parents had two boys and two girls. And that was their family, period. And then, when my mother was forty-five, she got pregnant with me. Forty-five!

HM: Oh, my word!

MH: And it was such a surprise! Well, it occurs to me that I came along and, at the time when my brother graduated from Biola, which was then probably a three-year Bible course—this was back in 1917—he came home after being graduated and here was a brand new baby girl had been born. See, my older people were all in their early twenties or, you know, the two boys and the two girls were all grown up when I came along. I was a postscript. And so, when he came home after graduation and, of course, Denver was the place where we lived.

Now, that clock isn’t right. I thought you were looking at the clock.

HM: Oh, no, sorry. No, I wasn’t.

Brother, a Biola Alum

MH: No, I didn’t want you to go looking because I don’t think it’s correct. When he was attending Biola, it was just a Bible school and it probably was a three-year course. And that was your graduation and that was it. Well, then, in 1940—did I say forty-five? My mother was so surprised that she was going to have another baby ‘cause she had her family, you know. And so, on the day when my brother finished Biola, graduated whatever this course it was—three years or whatever—he came home from Colorado to Denver on the day that I was born. I was born in 1945 and, of course, my two brothers and two sisters were all grown up people in their twenties or early, getting towards their twenties.

HM: Right, late teens.

MH: Right, late teens, yeah. And then all of a sudden I come along. Well he had never seen this little baby. So this is what they tell me: when he arrived home it was the day of his graduation that he took, somehow got a plane ticket to come home from southern California to…

HM: Denver, Colorado?

MH: Yes. It was in Berthin where I grew up. Well anyway, my two brothers and sisters were all older, around twenties, around that area. And here I am, just a little baby, and so, when my brother came home after graduating, he found out my mother was very weary. She was forty-five years old and she had, you know, had this baby that she hadn’t expected. And I had double pneumonia, and they didn’t think I was going to live. Now this would be in the fall, in the fall of 1917, the time I was born. I had this double pneumonia and they said I wouldn’t live through the night. …

And so my brother, he had gone to Biola and graduated and he wanted to be a minister. When he came home, here was this little baby. And my mother was so weary, she had tried to take care of me with double pneumonia. And so he said, Mother, he says, you are so weary, you need to have some sleep. He said, I—now here he had just come home, arrived home from this trip, you know, from graduating from Biola—and here’s this baby that has double pneumonia. And he says, Mother, now you take this night, you sleep. You’ve got to rest; you’re tired. And I will stay awake, I promise I won’t go to sleep, I’ll stay awake and I’ll take care of baby Margaret all night. And so, that’s what happened. He had mother go to bed and he stayed all night watching over me. Imagine—coming home from that, he graduated and he came home, and he promised he wouldn’t go to sleep. (laughs) He stayed awake to look after baby Margaret. So you can imagine that I had great, high respect for that brother.

HM: Oh, absolutely.

MH: And he was a minister of churches and a very godly man. Anyways, he’s with the Lord now. Anyway, that was where his heart was—he wanted to help his mother to have a good sleep.

HM: That’s great.

MH: Imagine, he’s coming home from a trip.

HM: I can’t. You’re so exhausted. And then staying up all night with you, that’s so amazing.

MH: So, I had great admiration for him. Well, let’s see, what else do you need to know?

HM: Oh, I love just hearing stories. I do, it’s great.

UCLA Years

MH: Well, I think that there isn’t anything else… Well I did go to college, UCLA had… The first two years of your work at UCLA, you could take in a junior college in Glendale. And not make that trip all the way out to where UCLA is located. And I found out about that and that would be easier for me. I get full credit for those two years and then I wouldn’t have to travel all that way. So I just took a street car down to take care of this transportation. So I had those two years. And then I had the other two years I went out to where UCLA is located. I finished my work there. And then I was asked to be a Christian Ed director at church and I can’t recall everything that happened. But anyway…

HM: When you came to Biola, did you stay in downtown Los Angeles?

MH: No. I lived in Hollywood, West Hollywood.

HM: West Hollywood.

MH: That was where my family had been settled and I took a bus and a street car to get down to Los Angeles to this school. Yes, that was my transportation. Until my final year there, they sort of wanted me to be in charge of the people that were taking temporary jobs, or something or other. And so they said, you can live in the dorm. We’ll have you live in the dorm, for just…this was just about a month or two toward the end of my graduation, and take care of some business that they wanted me to handle with the students that were finishing. So I didn’t live in the dorm, I traveled.

HM: OK. So you were born in Colorado, and then your family moved to West Hollywood?

MH: Oh, born in Colorado. Well, they moved to the Los Angeles area and then, about the time when I was college-age, we happened to live in that part of Hollywood where there was transportation to Los Angeles by bus and car. No…

HM: Street car.

MH: Yes. I took a bus to get to a street car and then take a street car down.

HM: Were your parents at all nervous to send you into downtown Los Angeles?

MH: Oh, no! I was a teenager. Sure, everybody could have transportation.

HM: Oh, OK. That’s neat. Now, were you… So, after you did your work at the churches, you came to work for Biola. So, while you were working there, did they… Is that when they moved to La Mirada while you were working there?

MH: Honey, I can’t recall, ‘cause I didn’t keep close touch with Biola. those years, there was no reason for me to talk to anybody there. And so I’m not aware of what exactly happened. But it was just… Your question is about, what did I do during that time? Well, I guess I was working in churches, doing Christian education. Christian Ed really was…I loved it; I enjoyed it. It appealed to me and it turned out that’s exactly what the Lord had wanted me to do, I guess.

HM: Good. When you were the dean of Biola, was that for the downtown Los Angeles location?

Miscellaneous Biola Memories

Showing Photo Album

MH: Well, no, I didn’t have my office way down there. My office was… (laughs) where was it? It wasn’t all the way down in L.A. My, this is something. But I have some pictures to show you.

HM: Oh, I would love to see pictures!

MH: Yes, I’ve got them. The albums, they’ve been here since they first called me that they wanted to see. I’ll show you. These two albums; maybe you can help me, they’re heavy. I’m going to have to have you help me.

HM: OK, I’ll carry both of them.

MH: Oh, you’ll carry both of them. Good, good. Thank you.

Now, are you comfortable?

HM: Oh, yes, I’m very comfortable.

MH: You’re not too warm?

HM: No, I’m doing very well.

MH: Good. All right. Now, I want to show these to you.

HM: OK, let’s move this.

MH: Yes, let’s just shove it along. I had a friend, well she is my niece, and I told her that I needed to have some help to know what you wanted. And she looked through my albums and she put marks on things where she thought that would be of interest. So, this is how we’re going to do it.

HM: All right!

MH: I’ll show you. Now this is a picture of Biola’s Women’s Choir in front of the Church of the Open Door.

HM: Oh, wow!

MH: That’s the Women’s Choir.

HM: Are you in the Women’s Choir?

MH: I’m in the trio; I’m the middle one in the trio.

HM: That is so neat.

MH: And this is the Church of the Open Door, you see how that’s the way it is here. ‘Cause it’s below ground level—no, this isn’t. This is the church but, I mean, down below, that’s why they have it like that. And so, this is the Women’s Choir, I think. It’s Biola’s Women’s Choir and the Church of the Open Door is where we had our school.

HM: Ah, is this your graduation picture?

MH: Well, yes.

HM: It’s so neat. And then, is this you as a bridesmaid right here?

MH: Yes, I was a bridesmaid at a wedding.

HM: The Rood wedding?

Women's Choir

MH: No. Well, wait a minute, let me think. Yes, come to think of it, it was the Rood—the girl—she was in the trio with me. See, this is me and then, I think, this one is the Rood girl. We’re in a trio and one of the companies in Hollywood, a Christian organization, was having a program. And they wanted some music. So they phoned Biola and said, can you send us some group, some musical group. We need some music for our weekly program, every week we speak on the television. And so, when they called the school, the school said that they’ll send a trio. So they sent us. And every, I think it was every Wednesday morning, we were taken to Hollywood to sing on the program.

HM: That is so exciting.

MH: We missed chapel but we didn’t miss any classes. The way it was scheduled, it was early in the morning, early enough that they came and got us and took us—it was on, I forget the boulevard that’s so well-known in Hollywood. Anyway, we sing and then they come and get us in time for us to come back for class. I only missed devotions; they had devotions every morning.

HM: OK, so you only missed that on Wednesday morning?

MH: On Wednesday morning, right. And then, did you know about this girl?

HM: Is that the Rood girl?

MH: Yeah, Rood girl.

HM: No, tell me about her.

MH: Oh, well, she became… I sang at their wedding. They had a huge wedding at the Church of the Open Door because her father was the head of music at Biola. And the man who was the chaplain, I mean the man who was going to be her husband, was also a member of the church. And so everybody came.

HM: Of course, everyone is going to come to that!

MH: That was a big occasion. And they were married. In fact, I just had a nice time lately with the man who married her, this girl. And we’ve had chats together.

HM: That’s so neat.

MH: OK, now let’s see this. Well, then, this… We had the chimes like they have now at Biola. You know, the chimes.

HM: Yes.

MH: Yeah, this is what we had, we had the chimes. And then this is another view of our trio. And then this is the choir, I think—what does this say?

HM: The Biola Trio.

MH: Oh, Biola Trio.

HM: That’s the Rood girl and that’s you?

MH: Yes.

HM: Wow! Can I see that?

MH: They’re both with the Lord; both of them died. But I’m still alive.

HM: Yes, you most definitely are.

MH: I told you I’m going to have my ninetieth birthday.

HM: You are, what day? Yes, you did.

MH: In October.

HM: Wait, what day in October?

MH: Twenty.

HM: Ah, I’m October 6.

MH: Oh, you’re October 6—good for you!

HM: I’ll be turning twenty-one.

MH: Heidi!

HM: Yay!

MH: How about that? You’ll be twenty-one. Hooray for you, my dear.

HM: I’m so excited.

MH: Good for you.

HM: OK, so this one…

MH: OK now, this is the picture of the way it looked. This is the way it looked down there at the Church of the Open Door, down on Sixth and Hope Streets.

HM: Sixth and Hope.

MH: And this is where, I guess, part of where you are now.

HM: Yes, this is Hope Hall. So this is… They named it after Hope Street.

MH: Oh.

HM: So they named the new dormitory, Hope.

MH: Good, good. So it was on Hope Street, yeah. And this is the reunion… Oh, they had a fiftieth reunion, see a fiftieth reunion. And I see, I graduated in ’38 and then, what would it be—’88. Wait a minute.

HM: Yes, ’88, you’re right.

MH: ’88. They said it was ’88, yeah. So they had a fiftieth reunion and that’s how I have those pictures. Well, let’s see, of course there are a lot of different things. Let’s make sure we pick the ones that we need. You’ve done this one…

HM: I’ve done that one… Oh, here’s the fiftieth anniversary…

MH: Oh, fiftieth, yeah, the fiftieth.

HM: Oh, you’re so beautiful.

MH: (Laughs) Oh, honey…

HM: You still are.

MH: Oh, no.

HM: Yes. OK, I think that’s all that’s sticking out of this one. Let’s check the next one.

MH: Well, wait a minute. There’s some more slips there, I think. Isn’t there?

HM: I think this is the first one.

MH: All right, there’s another one, for some reason. Well, it’s just more of the same. This is the Women’s Choir, I think that’s the Biola Trio again. And here’s the chimes like we have now; you’ve seen the chimes.

HM: Yeah, they’re great. I like them.

MH: See, we had them back in the fifty years ago. Now, let’s see, if I can get the next one here. Oh, this shows old Biola, new Biola—the fiftieth year. And, I guess, that’s what this is about. This is Biola—fifty years, ’88. ’38 and ’88. And is that the end of them?

HM: I think so. Let’s move on to the next one.

MH: I guess we did.

HM: There’s some in this one.

MH: Yes, we saw them all, I guess. OK, in this one, yeah, and we saw this one. OK, now there’s another one. Now this is… Let’s see what we can find here. This is just pictures of King’s Daughters’ Council, oh, they still have King’s Daughters?

HM: No, what are the King’s Daughters?

MH: They’re the women of the school.

HM: No, I didn’t know that! Tell me about it.

MH: Well, it was just organized that those are the daughters of the king and it was a women’s organization.

HM: At Biola?

MH: Uh-huh.

HM: Oh, wow, I’ve never heard of that.

MH: King’s Daughters.

HM: I think we missed some up here.

MH: Did we miss some? Oh, yeah, let’s make sure we… I don’t know what this is.

HM: Students at Biola. Is this you?

MH: Yes, I am with the girls who played the piano well. She was there playing.

HM: Is this from when you were working at Biola? Or is this when you were going to Biola?

MH: When I was going there, I just kept pictures all the time.

HM: Oh, right.

MH: Now, let’s see. Over here, is there anything over here?

HM: It says, Biola Trio.

MH: It’s probably just the trio. Is that it?

HM: Yes.

MH: (laughter)

HM: This is so fun!

MH: And this is more of just the… I don’t know why…

HM: Oh, these are the King’s Daughters.

MH: Yeah, do you have that group now?

HM: No, we don’t.

MH: Oh, that was the name for the women’s organization. They were the King’s Daughters.

HM: That’s so neat. Did they have a men’s organization? Or just the women’s were called the King’s Daughters?

MH: I don’t remember what the men had. Sorry.

HM: Oh, don’t be sorry! It’s not your fault. That’s so great.

MH: This is a King’s Daughters’ Council. Let me see, there’s another one here. Oh, this one, this is housemothers. Yeah, the housemothers who took care of us. We called them housemothers. Here, these. I guess I’m in on this one just to...whether… This is Biola. We had a woman living in our dorm, we called her housemother.

HM: We call them RDs now—resident directors.

MH: Oh, yes. Well, that’s more of a professional name. And then, I don’t think there’s anything here. Except Deans’ Conference, Biola. Oh, it was a deans’ conference, I guess all deans. And then, I don’t know what this was.

HM: It says, Deans of Women Seminar at Moody, 1959.

MH: Oh! Deans of Women’s Seminary at Moody, yeah. We were sent to Moody in the summer to learn more about what we could do. And I enjoyed it very much; it was wonderful. We’d go to Moody, yes. And this is the deans, the women of the seminary at Moody. And then, let’s see, over here, what’s this?

HM: Oh, this just says, Biola.

MH: Probably, that’s more.

HM: Biola Days.

MH: Here are some of the groups, it shows some of them, young people. Do they still have this place fixed up like this?

HM: Uhhhh, is that…

MH: I don’t know.

HM: I think that might be Sutherland Hall. Yes, it’s still fixed up like that.

MH: Yes, I think it is.

HM: Oh, no, this is ahhh…. Where is this? This is Alpha Chi—is that where this is?

MH: Yeah, Alpha Chi.

HM: Yes! It looks exactly like that!

MH: Good.

HM: Yes! Were you a housemother at Alpha?

MH: No.

HM: No?

MH: No, I was a student there.

HM: This is so cool.

MH: I think these are the women who helped, one in each dorm. I guess that’s it.

HM: Oh, that is so neat. I love that.

MH: Well, my niece fixed those up. One of the dresses I had on, she said, I remember making that dress. She made it for me.

Conclusion

HM: That’s so neat, that’s so neat. I’ve asked all the questions I need to ask. Is there anything else you would like to add? Just about Biola, about your experiences at all?

MH: It thrills me to think that Biola has been going since the 1800s. And has grown and grown and grown, you know. It used to be just a little Bible class group. And now it’s a university with all of these majors, all of the things you can study. And it’s grown so. It’s over a hundred people. And to think that, here I was born after Biola started—Biola was already going when I was born, because my brother graduated from the school, from the Bible school, whatever they had then at the time. And he graduated and he came home and found that mother had this baby girl. (laughs) And he stayed up all night taking care of me so Mother could sleep.

HM: That’s so great.

MH: And he was a wonderful minister, he was a pastor of churches, a wonderful group. He’s with the Lord.

HM: Yes, that’s so neat. It sounds like your experience at Biola was really great. And your brother’s, as well.

MH: Well, the Lord said to the people, that he wanted to have trained there. And then they had these excellent teachers that we had. It was wonderful. I never could have been a Dean of Women on my own. And if I had problems, like with that girl, I probably would have called and ran and told her, you know… And that wasn’t the way to do it! The way to do it is to let her pay her way, go home for a week. When she came back, she was a different person.

HM: Praise the Lord.

MH: See, it’s just the Lord. I know that I would have bungled things up and made mistakes but I just said, Lord, it’s your work. Please you take over. And the Lord did—He took over and He led me to the fact that I didn’t say anything to that girl, except that, as you know, we had to ask you to take care of things again and again. And we can’t do it any more until you have a chance to go home. And can you pay your way home? Yes, I’ll pay my own way. So, she did.

HM: That’s so neat. I’m glad that it came out the way that it did.

MH: I know that that would be the most ticklish thing that I had to handle. And I didn’t talk to the parents at all.

HM: I think that was very wise decision. Definitely.

MH: And then, the girl—oh! She was like a different person when she came back. And I had a phone call from the head dean over me, I was an assistant dean, well, he said, I’d like to know if you’ve had a chance to find out how—I forget her name—how she got along? Oh, I said, I wish you could hear her talk! She just talks about the Lord, she’s so happy with everything, and she’s glad she’s here. See, she changed her whole attitude, her attitude changed by going home for a week. She hadn’t accepted the Lord. I think she didn’t know the Lord at first. When she accepted the Lord as her Savior, it changed her whole attitude. And oh, she was so positive! The Lord did that.

HM: Yes. Absolutely.

MH: The lady who had been dean ahead of me, I had heard this, and I thought, oh, dear Lord… She had had a talk with her parents, she talked to them and told the parents that da-da-da-duh about your daughter, you know da-da-da-duh and so on. And of course it makes the parents feel very bad. And I thought to myself, Lord, help me. I don’t want to talk to the parents. And He showed me how to do it this way, instead. And I didn’t talk to the parents. In fact, they would have known me because we had been in Biola at the same time, he and his wife and I. Of course, they had their own room and I had my room and so on. But we’d see each other in classes and so on. And here he was a pastor in Texas. So I would have seen him again. But I didn’t have to see him at all. The Lord did that. ‘Cause I asked the Lord to take over and He did. It was only…it’s only the Lord that does these things.

HM: It is. Well, thank you so much, Margaret. I appreciate you being willing to do this with me. I really do.

MH: Oh, honey, I’m just so delighted. I feel so honored tot think that somebody wants to come and see me from Hart Hall!

HM: No, I’m delighted to do so. So thank you so much.

MH: Thank you for coming.

HM: No, my pleasure, my pleasure. I’m going to turn this off.

MH: Success to you in what you have to do now with the next things.

HM: Oh, well, thank you so much. I appreciate that. OK, I’ll go ahead and turn this off.